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Xref: bloom-picayune.mit.edu rec.arts.disney:11448 news.answers:4730 Path: bloom-picayune.mit.edu!enterpoop.mit.edu!mojo.eng.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!uflorida!purdue!haven.umd.edu!uunet!seismo!tanida From: tanida@forseti.css.gov (Tom Tanida) Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney,news.answers Subject: rec.arts.disney FAQ, part 2 Summary: FAQ for rec.arts.disney Keywords: FAQ, disney Message-ID: <51658@seismo.CSS.GOV> Date: 16 Dec 92 22:47:19 GMT Expires: 16 Dec 92 22:47:19 GMT Sender: usenet@seismo.CSS.GOV Reply-To: tanida@esosun.css.gov (Tom Tanida) Followup-To: rec.arts.disney Lines: 871 Approved: news-answers-request@MIT.Edu Nntp-Posting-Host: beno.css.gov Originator: tanida@beno.CSS.GOV Archive-name: disney-faq/part2 Last-modified: 16 Dec 1992 Frequently Asked Questions List For rec.arts.disney, part 2 Version 1.4, last revised 12/16/92 This is part two of the FAQ file for rec.arts.disney. I have tried to include the questions and threads which arise most often, as well as some interesting facts. Most of the information came from articles posted to rec.arts.disney since July 1990, about the time the group was started, although I'm missing quite a few articles from early on. Your input to this list is highly appreciated. The purpose of this list is to reduce the number of redundant questions posted to rec.arts.disney, and to provide a source of information to Disney fans worldwide. Personally, however, I would invite discussion on questions included in this list if this list is not complete enough. For example, one of the questions in part one lists the voices of popular Disney characters and where to find more info, but if the character is not listed here, I would still encourage you to post and ask, especially if the character is more obscure. Also, I couldn't possibly write the "complete guide to taking kids to the Disney Theme Parks" because there is no truly complete guide. Although I have offered some information and advice here (the information here is that which is most commonly suggested), I would still welcome discussion on the topic since everybody has their own opinions about what rides to go on, what to see, when to go, what restaurants to eat at in the area, etc. Again, however, I hope that this list will reduce the amount of redundant information posted to the net. I also hope this list will provide a unified source of information about Disney related material and provide a valuable reference for all. This is part two of the list, consisting of general topics and questions, as well as some time critical information. Part one of the list, which is contained in a separate article, contains general topics and questions and timely information. There are three sub-parts: 1) A list of the questions alone 2) Answers to Theme Park Questions 3) Answers to questions about Disney Trivia Send comments, corrections, suggestions, and inside information to: tanida@esosun.css.gov. I am sure that no matter how long I work on this that it will never be perfect, but it doesn't hurt to try. :-) If you prefer CompuServe access, I'm at 76655,344. On Prodigy I'm xgsn74a. On America On-Line, I'm TomTanida. On the Sierra Network, I'm at mailbox 2173. (Now all I need is GEnie and MCI Mail.) If you would like a PostScript version of this document, which has much better formatting, feel free to send me a request; I can either mail it to you, or we can find a mutual FTP site. This document was originally created in MS Word For Windows 2.0. Part I- Questions Theme park questions (those marked with * can be found in the Disneyland FAQ): *1) What are the park hours? *2) What rides are currently shut down for refurbishing? What current construction is going on? *3) What are the current prices at {WDW, Disneyland}? *4) How do I beat the crowds? *5) If I've been to the Magic Kingdom in WDW, what parts of Disneyland can I skip? *6) Where should I stay when visiting {WDW, Disneyland}? 7) What's the best time to go to {WDW, Disneyland}? 8) My child is 3 years old. Is that old enough to enjoy Disneyland/WDW? 9) What are good attractions to take younger children to? 10) Other considerations for children (strollers, etc.) 11) Some interesting things to look for at the theme parks 12) Differences between the Magic Kingdom at WDW and Disneyland 13) Who created the music from the Main Street Electrical Parade? 14) What is SpectroMagic at Walt Disney World? 15) What is Fantasmic! at Disneyland? How do I beat the crowds? 16) What is a "Character Breakfast"? 17) What is the Disney Vacation Club? 18) What are some good guide books on travel to {WDW/Disneyland? Other facts (send in your contributions- separate lists being built): 1) A Disney lexicon 2) Technical errors in Disney animated feature films 3) List of Jungle Cruise jokes (this is pretty long now) 4) Hidden Mickeys (also for #11) 5) Misc trivia Part II- Answers to Theme Park Questions Theme park questions: The answers to questions #1-6 for Disneyland are in the Disneyland FAQ, posted monthly. *1) What are the park hours? See the Disneyland FAQ for the Disneyland hours. Here are the WDW hours, courtesy of emj@b124.super.org (Elaine M Jacobson). Note that the Main Street section of the Magic Kingdom at WDW will often open 30 minutes to an hour ahead of the official opening time. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Theme Park Operating Hours for November 1992 through January 1993 ----------------------------------------------------------------- *** HOURS AND ENTERTAINMENT SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE **** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- DISNEY-MGM STUDIOS THEME PARK ----------------------------------------------------------------------- December 1 - 12 .................................. 9am until 7pm December 13 - 18 ................................. 9am until 6pm December 19 - 20 ................................. 9am until 7pm December 21 - 23 ................................. 9am until 9pm December 24 ...................................... 8am until 6pm December 25 - 30 ................................. 8am until 11pm December 31 ...................................... 8am until 1am "Sorcery in the Sky" fireworks will be presented at 8:50pm December 21 through 23, at 9:50pm December 25 through 30, and at midnight on December 31. January 1 ........................................ 8am until 10pm January 2 ........................................ 9am until 9pm January 3 - 31 ................................... 9am until 7pm "Sorcery in the Sky" fireworks will be presented at 9:50pm on January 1, and at 8:50pm on January 2. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- EPCOT CENTER ----------------------------------------------------------------------- December 1 - 5 ................................... 9am until 9pm December 6 - 18 .................................. 9am until 8pm December 19 - 23 ................................. 9am until 9pm December 24 ...................................... 9am until 6pm December 25 - 30 ................................. 8am until 11pm December 31 ...................................... 8am until 2am "IllumiNations" will be presented at 9pm December 1 through 5, 8pm December 6 through 18, 9pm December 19 through 23, 10pm December 25 through 30, and 11:45pm December 31. "Surprise in the Skies" will be featured at 3pm December 1 through 2, December 5 through 9, December 12 through 16, December 19 through 23, and December 26 through 30. January 1 - 2 .................................... 9am until 10pm January 3 - 31 ................................... 9am until 9pm "IllumiNations" will be presented nightly at park closing time. "Surprise in the Skies" will be featured at 3pm January 2 through 6, January 9 through 13, January 16 through 20, January 23 through 27, and January 30 through 31. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- MAGIC KINGDOM ----------------------------------------------------------------------- December 1 - 6 ................................ 9am until 7pm December 7 - 18 ............................... 9am until 6pm December 19 - 23 .............................. 9am until 10pm December 24 ................................... 9am until 6pm December 25 - 30 .............................. 8am until 12midnight December 31 ................................... 8am until 2am "SpectroMagic" will be featured at 9pm on December 19 through 23, and December 25 through 30. "Fantasy in the Sky" fireworks will be presented at 10pm on December 19 through 23, and December 25 through 30, and at 12midnight on December 31. "Mickey's Very Merry Christmas Parade" will be presented at 3pm on December 5, 6, 12, 13, and at 2pm on December 19 through 31. "Mickey's Very Merry Christmas Party" will be December 11, 12, and 18, after regular operating hours, from 8pm to 1am. A special ticket will be required for admission. The "Candlelight Processional" is scheduled for 7pm on December 19 and 20. January 1 - 2 ..................................... 9am until 11pm January 3 - 15 .................................... 9am until 7pm January 16 ........................................ 9am until 9pm January 17 ........................................ 9am until 8pm January 18 - 29 ................................... 9am until 7pm January 30 ........................................ 9am until 8pm January 31 ........................................ 9am until 7pm "SpectroMagic" will be shown at 9pm on January 1 and 2. "Fantasy in the Sky" fireworks will be presented at 10pm on January 1 and 2. *2) What rides are currently shut down for refurbishing? What current construction is going on? If there's someone out there who regularly goes to WDW and is willing to keep the group updated, here's a big chance to help out. :-) Otherwise, you can contact the respective theme parks directly. The number for Disneyland is (714)-999-4565. WDW: (407)-824-4321 *3) What are the current prices at {WDW, Disneyland}? The following table lists prices for Passports to WDW. If staying at a Disney resort, you may benefit if you can find a package deal that includes lodging and a passport. Passport type General Public MKC Club Members Five Day Super Pass, $152 plus tax $147 plus tax guest Five Day Super Pass, $120 plus tax $115 plus tax child (3-9) Four Day Super Pass, $116 plus tax $111 plus tax guest Four Day Super Pass, $90 plus tax $85 plus tax child (3-9) Annual Passport, $190 plus tax $175 plus tax guest Annual Passport, $165 plus tax $155 plus tax child One-day, one park $33 plus tax $31.02 plus tax ticket, guest One-day, one park $26 plus tax $24.20 plus tax ticket, child Taken from the MKC price guide, with help from Len Goldberg (goldberg@ljohub.enet.dec.com): A Five Day Super Duper Pass includes unlimited admission to the Disney- MGM Studios Theme Park, Magic Kingdom Park and Epcot Center any five days with no expiration date. Plus unlimited admission for seven days to Typhoon Lagoon, River Country, Discovery Island and Pleasure Island (valid for seven days after first visit to Magic Kingdom Park, Epcot Center or the Disney-MGM Studios Theme Park). It also includes unlimited use of the transportation system linking the parks. A Four Day Super Pass is the same as the Five Day, but does not include admission to the minor parks. An Annual Passport includes twelve months of unlimted admission to the Disney-MGM Studios Theme Park, the Magic Kingdom Park and Epcot Center during regular operating hours. It also includes special advance reservation privileges for Walt disney World restaurants, free parking and unlimited use of the transportation system linking the Parks. Annual Passport holders can purchase separate admissions to the minor parks to supplement their passport. These expire at the same time the passport does. A One-Day One Park Ticket includes one day's admission to either the Disney-MGM Studios Theme Park, Magic Kingdom Park or Epcot Center and bus transportation between the Transportation and Ticket Center, and Magic Kingdom Park, Epcot Center or the Disney-MGM Studios Theme Park. There are six, seven and eight day Super Duper Passes, which can only be purchased at the resorts themselves. *4) How do I beat the crowds? One of the best strategies is to arrive early, before the park opens. An hour after opening is too late, by then, the lines have built up to a full frenzy. Another strategy, generally for those without kids, is to take on the more popular rides late in the evening (after 9pm, through midnight, if you're there at the time of year when the park is open late). Also, the lines do shorten a little during major shows (the Main Street Electrical Parade, SpectroMagic at WDW, or Fantasmic! at Disneyland) and during dinner time. *5) If I've been to the Magic Kingdom in WDW, what parts of Disneyland can I skip? *6) Where should I stay when visiting {WDW, Disneyland}? For first time guests, especially those with kids, I recommend an on-site resort in order to make the transition easier. At Disneyland, the Disneyland hotel features the monorail; it is *very* convenient to flash your passport and hop on to go to the park, then hop back on in Tomorrowland to return to the hotel when you need a break. Likewise, the Contemporary Resort, among others, also feature easy Monorail-to-park access. For those without kids, or experienced travelers, off-site hotels can be cheaper. Although they won't feature the amenities of the more expensive hotels, this may be better if you're looking to save money and aren't interested in spending much time in your room (aside from sleeping). Be sure to check out vacation packages, however, before giving up on the Disney hotels. Birnbaum's Official Guide books give decent listings of the resort hotels, including phone numbers and addresses. 7) What's the best time to go to {WDW, Disneyland}? For WDW, here's a quick and dirty table, from best to worst: 1) October, through a week before Christmas, except Thanksgiving 2) Post New Years through a couple weeks before Easter 3) Post Easter through Memorial Day 4) President's Day weekend 5) Spring Break week (the week up to and including Easter) 6) Memorial Day through the end of Summer 7) Thanksgiving weekend 8) Christmas through the New Year Note that on the holidays themselves (e.g. Christmas) there will be periods where the park is nearly empty while people celebrate (e.g. Christmas morning).. 8) My child is 3 years old. Is that old enough to enjoy Disneyland/WDW? As always, it depends on the kids and the patience of the parent. Two or three is about a minimum age (otherwise, the child is pretty much just along for the ride), but even children this young can get quite a bit of enjoyment from the visit. Children of this age might enjoy meeting the characters (in the park, or at a Character Breakfast (see #16 below)), and some of the milder rides. Detracting from the enjoyment would be the patience of the kids waiting in line for the rides; you probably know how to judge/handle your own child's patience levels better than I do. :-) To fully appreciate Disneyland/WDW, seven or so is probably a better age. 9) What are good attractions to take younger children to? (I'll take younger to mean below 5 years of age here.) Almost always OK: Jungle Cruise Swiss Family Treehouse (though some find this too dull and crowded) Dumbo It's A Small World Peter Pan's Flight PeopleMover Walt Disney World/Disneyland Railroad Mickey's Starland Show (WDW) Country Bear Jamboree Tom Sawyer's Island Cinderella's Carousel Journey Into Imagination (EPCOT) Kitchen Caberet (EPCOT) Universe of Energy (EPCOT) Disney Animation Tour (Disney-MGM) Anything in the EPCOT World Showcase, with the possible exception of the Norway Maelstrom ride. Possible fright factor: Haunted Mansion Tea Cups (motion sickness) Mr. Toad's Wild Ride (not as wild as the name suggests, but still rough) Space Mountain Star Tours Captain EO (I'd be wary of the volume) Pirates of the Caribbean (can be threatening to the unaware, includes a couple of plunges) Body Wars (EPCOT; can be generally nauseating to people of any age) The Great Movie Ride (Disney-MGM- potential surprises) Snow White Ride (featuring the rather scary queen popping out of the dark) As always with kids, your mileage may vary; a good strategy would be to start with the milder rides and work your kid up to more "aggressive" rides if you think they're up to it. Certain aspects of a ride may frighten children, such as immersion in darkness (Pirates of the Caribbean). Also note that meeting Disney characters themselves is not a given, as some kids can be terrified of a gigantic Mickey or Goofy. Start from a distance and work forward. There is a "fright factor" chart in the 1992 edition of the Unofficial Guide to Walt Disney World, by Bob Sehlinger (see question #18 for a list of guide books). 10) Other considerations for children (strollers, etc.) (This question may be broken up and expanded to include phone numbers and specific locations in the future.) Physical health: In the summer months especially at WDW, it is easy for kids (and adults) to get sunburned and dehydrated. Bring along plenty of bottled water (much better than sugary sodas) and sunscreen; with the crowds you'll otherwise have to stand in line at the refreshment stands or drinking fountains, and if it's a hot day, you might have to stop often. Also guard against blisters (use broken-in shoes and consider two pairs of thin socks over one pair of thick socks). Make note of the First Aid centers (there is one in each of the three theme parks). Temperment: It's up to you, the parent to keep your temper. It might not be easy, given the crowds and the long waits for certain rides, the heat, etc. The best thing to do is to make sure you enjoy yourself. Maximizing your vacation is not a matter of cramming yourself on as many rides as possible: it's a good idea, especially with kids, to take time out for a breather periodically (not just standing in line). Find a place to sit down with some ice cream, or even return to the hotel room after lunch for a short nap. Strollers: Strollers are available for rent at each of the theme parks. The stroller centers are near the entrances, and the process of getting a stroller is fairly quick and easy. Rule number one is to keep your receipt. Rule number two is to keep your receipt (and don't keep it in the stroller itself). It's easy for your stroller to get swiped- not because there are roving packs of stroller thieves, but because people might mistake your stroller for theirs. If this should happen, you can go to the stroller center, show your receipt, and get a new one (they won't charge you to replace it). A good idea is to attach something to the stroller that will uniquely identify it as yours (nothing of great value, of course), such as a piece of paper with your name on it or a bright scarf. Babysitting services: There aren't any services inside the parks themselves, but there are childcare services at the resorts. In general, you must have a reservation. They can be expensive (e.g. $6 per hour, with an $18 minimum), but include free video games, Dsiney movies, games and activities, and visits by a Disney character each night. They accept kids from 3-12 years of age. There is also a "Fairy Godmother" service available (also not cheap), who will come to your room at any hour of the day, 24 hours a day, and can even take care of your pet. Infants/Toddlers: All of the theme parks have Baby Care services, which have everything you need for changing diapers, making formula, etc. Supplies for purchase can be found at these places as well. Lost children: You may or may not be surprised at how easy it is to get your child lost. When you exit rides and shows, you should take your child by the hand to make sure they don't get lost in the bustle of people exiting. Also keep in mind there may be more than one exit to a bathroom; should your child wander out of the one you don't expect, he or she may find themselves to be lost. Also keep track of your kids during parades- they might otherwise wander off while trying to get a better viewpoint. 11) Some interesting things to look for at the theme parks WDW: Hidden Mickeys <list being compiled> Disneyland: - The Park Entrance, designed to look like a red carpet - Apartment above the Disneyland Fire Station; apartment in the fourth floor of the Castle; offices above Main Street - The names on the windows on the second story of the buildings on Main Street. These are named for notable people who were involved in the creation of Disneyland. - The Disney Gallery, above Pirates of the Caribbean in New Orleans Square, of interest to those into animation - Telegraph operator at Frontierland/New Orleans Square station, which types out a Morse code version of Walt's opening day speech - The Club 33 entrance, at New Orleans Square, near the Blue Bayou restaurant - The Haunted Mansion knight - Snow White's Grotto, to the right of the Castle before you enter Fantasyland. Note the song in the Wishing Well. Also note the dwarves are the same size as Snow White. - Platform where Tinkerbell lands as the Fantasy in the Sky fireworks begin; a fort tower located behind the Frontierland buildings hidden by trees, where she slams into some mattresses at the end - Infrared sensor bathrooms, located near Videopolis, which turn the water on when you put your hands under the faucet, and flush the toilets when you step away - Paul Reuben (Pee-Wee Herman) as the voice of the pilot of Star Tours. 12) Differences between the Magic Kingdom at WDW and Disneyland The following are found only at the Magic Kingdom at WDW: The Hall of Presidents (Liberty Square) Dreamflight (Tomorrowland) Carousel of Progress (Tomorrowland) Mickey's Starland SpectroMagic (Main Street) The following are found only at Disneyland: Great Moments With Mr. Lincoln (Main Street) Sailing Ship Columbia (Frontierland) Big Thunder Ranch (Frontierland) The Story of Sleeping Beauty (Fantasyland) Pinocchio's Daring Journey (Fantasyland) Casey Jr. Circus Train (Fantasyland) Storybook Land Canal Boats (Fantasyland) Alice In Wonderland (Fantasyland) Matterhorn Bobsleds (Fantasyland) Motor Boat Cruise (Fantasyland) Star Tours (Tomorrowland; these are at the MGM studios in Florida) Main Street Electrical Parade (Main Street) At WDW, Space Mountain, the Castles in Fantasyland (which are bigger) are considered better than their counterparts at Disneyland. The Disneyland Railroad features the Grand Canyon Diorama and Primeval World, not found at the Magic Kingdom in WDW, and Pirates of the Caribbean is much longer at Disneyland. The Magic Kingdom at WDW also has the advantage of having much larger pathways, having been built with large crowds in mind. Disneyland has more of the details (see also Question #11) and personality that Walt added. See also the Disneyland FAQ. 13) Who created the music from the Main Street Electrical Parade? The music, which is titled "Baroque Hoedown," was written by Jean- Jacques Perry and Gershon Kingsley. The electronically synthesized version which you hear during the parade was arranged and performed by Don Dorsey, noted synthesizer performer. The introduction, as the music starts: "Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls Disneyland proudly presents Our spectacular festival paegent of nighttime magic and imagination In thousands of sparkling lights and electro-syntho-magnetic musical sounds The Main Street Electrical Parade!" Incidentally, you can request a summary of the parade with a description of each of the floats from Disneyland Guest Relations via mail. (Unfortunately, I lost my summary, but it was probably out of date anyway, as the parade changes periodically.) The soundtrack to the The Main Street Electrical Parade is available on at least three different albums: the Fantasmic! soundtrack (Disneyland Records and Tapes, DIDX 013173); the "Music of Disneyland, Walt Disney World, and Epcot Center" soundtrack (Disneyland Records and Tapes, CD-007); and "The Music of Disney: A Legacy in Song," which is the 3 CD boxed set. The Fantasmic! soundtrack's version is the most complete by far. 14) What is SpectroMagic at Walt Disney World? SpectroMagic at WDW is the successor to the Main Street Electrical Parade. It use fiber optics and live costumed actors and, like the Main Street Electrical Parade, features floats of varying themes. Opinions on SpectroMagic being better than the Electrical Parade vary. 15) What is Fantasmic! at Disneyland? How do I beat the crowds? Fantasmic! is somewhat like a stage show, but with dszzling pyrotechnics. It is performed nightly at the south end of Tom Sawyer's Island (you can't miss it- just look for the thousands of people standing around at show t ime). There are individual sequences with various themes from Disney's history, with particular emphasis on the animated films. These sequences are tied together by the main plot of Mickey's imagination being overrun by the evil forces of Queen Maleficent (from Sleeping Beauty), Ursula (The Little Mermaid), the Queen from Snow White. among others. To date, it has been extremely popular, making it difficult to obtain a good view. Incidentally, there is a Fantasmic! soundtrack available, which also includes the full soundtrack to the Main Street Electrical Parade (it's more up to date than the version included on the "Music of Disneyland, Walt Disney World, and Epcot Center" album released in 1990). Unfortunately, the only place I've seen this sold is at Disneyland itself, but if anyone reading this knows where else it can be found, drop me a line. See the Disneyland FAQ for some info. 16) What is a "Character Breakfast"? A "Character Breakfast" is a breakfast held at specific locations early in the day where you (and your kids, of course) have the opportunity to eat breakfast while meeting popular Disney characters. They are held at different locations (listed below). Some locations need a reservation in advance. They do cost a little extra (around $10 for adults), but kids under 3 eat free, and kids 3-11 eat at reduced children's rates (around $6-7). All of the characters come and visit every table, so there is no pushing and shoving to meet them. There are also Character Brunches and Dinners, also included below. Young kids generally *love* these. Location Time Notes Contemporary 8-11 am No reservations Resort: Contemporary Cafe (WDW) Disney Beach Club: 7:30-11am No reservations Cape May Restaurant (WDW) Dolphin Hotel: Th,Su 8:30a- Reservations: (407)-934-4085 Ristorante 12:30p Carnevale (WDW) Grand Floridian: 7:30-noon Reservations: (407)-824-2383 1900 Park Fare (Breakfast) Grand Floridian: 5-9 pm Reservations: (407)-824-2383. 1900 Park Fare $18 adults, $9 children. (Dinner) Pleasure Island: 8:30 am Reservations: (407)-934-7639 Empress Lilly seating, Riverboat (WDW) 10:30 am seating Polynesian Resort: 7:30-10:30 Reservations: (407)-824-1391 Tangaroa Terrace am (WDW) Stargate Restaurant until 11am Counter-eatery; no (EPCOT) reservations; not necessary to purchase anything Swan Hotel: Garden W,Sa 8-11am No reservations. Info: Grove (WDW) (407)-934-1281 Tomorrowland 7:30-10am Exclusive to those who get Terrace, in WDW this as part of a package; early admission to park with voucher WDW Village: Chef 5:30-10 pm Better than average food, but Mickey's Village you only get to meet Restaurant Mickey. Disneyland Hotel, 7:30-10 am Contact the hotel for exact Disneyland information Plaza Inn, 7:30-10 am No reservations Disneyland This information is probably incomplete, as I suspect WDW/Disneyland change their schedules and add and delete locations. It might be a good idea to check with your hotel (if it's a Disney resort) or the Guest Relations of the park you will be visiting (see question #99 in part 1 of the FAQ for phone numbers). 17) What is the Disney Vacation Club? There was a thread on this in mid-March 1992. Here are two key messages here: From: nederost@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Tom Nederost) Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney Subject: Re: Buying Vacations Message-ID: <61450002@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> Date: 4 Mar 92 20:37:59 GMT Lines: 78 The "buy a vacation" concept you mentioned is the Disney Vacation Club at Walt Disney World. Disney is being very careful not to use the terminology of "timeshare" or "interval ownership" with this project, but in essense, the Disney Vacation Club is another variation on the timeshare concept. I toured the DVC in January. DVC is a large complex of condo-type units clustered around the western side of the Lake Buena Vista Golf Course and directly south of Port Orleans. Disney is selling a 50 year ownership interest in the Disney Vacation CLUB...not in a particular timeshare unit as is more common in the timeshare industry. For a minimum investment of about $12,500, a DVC member gets a set number of points to use toward accommodation purchases each year for 50 years. They have studio, one, two, and three bedroom units...all the units are beautiful finished inside with attractive landscaping and golfcourse or water views. The units feature ceramic tile baths (some with separate tub and shower) and corian countertops in the kitchens. The studio is rather small (smaller than a hotel room at Disney World) but the other size units feature a full kitchen and living area and are quite spacious. A DVC member can request any size unit at any time during the year...no minimum stays. You can come several times each year as long as you have enough points left. The larger the unit, the more points it costs for each night your stay there. For example, a studio may cost 100 points per night and a 3 bedroom "Grand Villa" may cost 400 points per night. Disney has also established about 5 different "seasons." A studio unit during the "value season" (least popular time) may cost 100 points per night, but the same size unit during the "holiday season" (Christmas and Easter) may cost 300 points per night. The minimum ownership interest requires about a $12k investment, however, memberships can cost much more (I think $60k was the max)...for that investment, you'd receive enough points to stay in a three bedroom unit for 7 days during the "holiday season." There is no daily maid service provided at the DVC and there is a yearly maintenance fee (which wasn't all that cheap from what I remember). Disney is selling the DVC memberships like hot cakes, but I didn't find the concept all that appealing. There is no real ownership interest in real property and it reverts back to Disney in 50 years. Also, reservation requests are on a first come, first served basis. If all the units are reserved during the week you want to visit, you're out of luck. The other project Disney is working on is it's new city called "Celebration." This city will be built on Disney World's southernmost property...near the intersection of US 192 and I-4. This will be a city of about 20,000 people. Disney is not building it as a vacation or second home community... they want permanent residents there. The entire project is still under governmental review and Disney has received a lot of criticism for some of it's planning. Disney is planning to build both multi-family and single family residences in four residential villages which surround a town center. Disney has not official release much information on this project. I have read the Development of Regional Impact report that Disney had to file with the Osceola County Planning Committee and could speculate that the firsthousing won't be available in "Celebration" until the '94-'95 time frame and will continue to be developed until 2010. Although Disney won't release any pricing information, the DRI did give some indication of what the average construction costs would be. From that, I can speculate that the CHEAPEST condo at Celebration will start at $125k and the CHEAPEST single family house at $200k. Rest assured they'll be some Million dollar beauties there as well. IMHO, The Disney Vacation Club is not for me. Celebration sounds more appealing but will certainly put a dent in my wallet. Tom nederost@hpcc01.corp.hp.com From: Chris.Harrower@cpanet.UUCP (Chris Harrower) Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney Subject: Buying Vacations Message-ID: <699972557.0@cpanet.UUCP> Date: 6 Mar 92 15:02:38 GMT Lines: 87 > Any comments? On Monday I had a chance to visit the Preview Center at the Vacation Club Resort (VCR). Unlike other timeshares, you are not locked into a specific time period or length of stay each year. Disney has developed a system where you purchase points, then use those points for each stay at the VCR. (Like other timeshares you are actually purchasing just a small percentage of one of the buildings at the VCR. But here, you can stay at any size property anywhere at the VCR). Heres a rundown of how the point sytem works. At the VCR you purchase points which are allocated yearly. A minimum purchase of 230 points is required. Each night of a stay requires a certain number of points. Daily point values are based on unit type and season, and follows the chart below. (In the chart the first number is the points required on a Sun-Thur stay, the second for Fri-Sat). SEASON Studio 1 Bedroom 2 Bedroom Grand Villa Adventure 7/17 14/35 19/47 31/77 Choice 8/21 17/42 23/57 37/92 Dream 10/25 20/50 27/67 45/112 Magic 11/28 23/57 31/77 52/130 Premier 15/38 31/77 42/105 68/170 Adventure season is 1/1-1/31, 9/1-9/30 and 12/1-12/14. Choice season is 10/1-11/25, 11/29-11/30 and 12/15-12/23. Dream season is 2/1-2/15, 5/1-6/10, 8/16-8/31. Magic season is 2/16-4/11, 4/26-4/30, 6/11-8/15 and 11/26-11/28. Premier season is 4/12-4/25 and 12/24-12/31. Note that these dates will change based on Spring Vacation and Thanksgiving. Studios, which are about the size of a hotel room include a microwave, coffee maker and refridgerator and sleeps four. The one bedroom units include a full kitchen and living room (with a sofa bed), and also sleeps four. The two bedroom units are a combination of a studio and one bedroom unit and sleeps eight. (I did not get to see the Grand Villas, but know they are two floors and sleep 12). You can plan your trip for whenever you like for however number of nights you want (based on availability). Reservations can be made up to 11 months in advance. You can "borrow" up to half your alloted yearly points from the following year, or you can "bank" unused points to the following year (with some resrictions). For example: You purchase 300 points. This entitles you to 300 points per year until 2042, when the plan ends. In 1992, you book a five day stay (Sun-Fri) in October in a one bedroom home in January (14x5=70 points), and a three day weekend in late December in a studio (2x38 plus 15 = 91 points). That's 161 points all together. You can bank all 139 remaining points for 1993 if you do so by July 1st 1992. If you delay in banking your points some will be lost. If you do bank your points, you will have 439 for 1993. You must purchase at least 230 points. Each point costs $51 (a one time purchase). Additionally there is a yearly charge of about $2.45 per point for expenses (mainatnance, taxes, the reservationists, etc). This yearly charge will vary. Until 2000, you will also receive special daily passes to the MK, the Studios and EPCOT. Unlike other one day passes these can be used in more than one park on the same day, but they can only be used while staying at the VCR. You receive one pass for every night spent in a Studio, two for each night at the 1 bedroom units, three passes for each night at 2 bedroom units and four passes for each night in the Grand Villas. (IMO, for someone who normally travels to WDW for about 14 days/year in the off season and stays on property, this deal looks good. Assuming you stay in a studio, you would be able to do it with just the minimum number of points. On the other hand, you will loose the variety of sampling the other Disney Resorts, the beach area is tiny, and although bus service will be provided, the location of the Resort dosen't provide easy access to either EPCOT or the MK. Also, the one bedroom units are spacious and VERY nice. After seeing them you may not want to stay in a studio). Also, according to Len Goldberg (goldberg@ljohub.enet.dec.com- thanks, Len!), the current price per point is $54.50, which will probably be increased in October, 1992 (I haven't heard any updates on this). In addition, here is some information mailed to me from Curt Schimmel (curt@foundation.wpd.sgi.com- thanks, Curt!), also reprinted verbatim: You can now use your DVC points to stay Disney's resort hotels. This has been added to the program specifically to address people's concerns that they will miss out on the fun of staying in different Disney hotels. The resorts you may stay at are: Luxury Resorts -------------- Grand Floridian Beach Resort Yacht Club Resort Beach Club Resort Premium Resorts --------------- Polynesian Resort Contemporary Resort Disney Inn It costs more points to stay in the hotels than it does to stay at the Disney Vacation Club (since you get daily maid service, more sport facilities, etc). The point schedule is as follows: Premium Luxury ------- ------ week week week week Season day end day end Adventure 22 44 24 49 Choice 25 50 28 57 Dream 30 59 32 66 Magic 37 76 41 83 Premier 48 97 52 107 In addition, you can only use this privilege at most on every *other* visit. You have to stay the Club at least once before staying in the hotels again. Finally, if you don't feel like visiting WDW in a particular year, you can exchange a one week stay at the Club through Resort Condominiums International (RCI). RCI is an outside "clearing house" that handles exchanges at various resort condominium communities worldwide. Using Club points, you can make an exchange at about 66 resort locations in the US and about another 65 elsewhere (mostly the Caribbean, Mexico, Canada, British Isles, and the Mediterranean). The way this works is that someone else who has a weeks usage at a condo at one of these locations will put their week in the RCI "bank". If a week you want at a particular location is in the bank, you can pick it up and put in a week at DVC. There's a $75 service charge to make an exchange and it will cost some number of club points depending on the season. You can make requests for seasons and locations you want up to two years in advance. There is, of course, no guarantee that the exchange you want can be made, but it does you give some extra vacation options. You can get more information by calling (800)-800-9100, or (407)-WDW-3100 (the latter if you are in the 407 area code. 18) What are some good guide books on travel to Walt Disney World/Disneyland? Guide books can be found in the Travel section of your favorite bookstore. They are generally grouped under the California (for Disneyland) or Florida (for WDW) sections, which is under "domestic travel." The best all around guide for planning your trip and finding good advice is probably one of the The Unofficial Guide books by Bob Sehlinger. (In fact, a lot of the information in this part of the FAQ was derived from these books.) The Fodor's travel guide is not very useful, except perhaps for restaurants in the area. The "Official" guide books are OK as references to the various services at the parks. Birnbaum, Steve, Guide to Disneyland Avon Books, updated yearly Birnbaum, Steve, Guide to Walt Disney World Avon Books, updated yearly ISBN: 0-380-71004-8 Labeled as the "official" Disney sanctioned guide Ritz, Stacy, Disney World and Beyond Ulysses Press ISBN 0-915233-37-1 Sehlinger, Bob, The Unofficial Guide to Disneyland Prentice Hall Press, updated yearly Sehlinger, Bob, The Unofficial Guide to Walt Disney World Prentice Hall Press, updated yearly ISBN 0-13-951047-8 Thorough, including sections on preparations for kids, evaluations of every ride, and clever strategies for waiting in line. A must get. Wiley, Kim Wright, Walt Disney World With Kids Prima Publishing ISBN 1-55958-140-9 Another good one for those going to WDW with children. Written by an experienced mom. Other facts: 1) A Disney lexicon 2) Technical errors in Disney animated feature films 3) List of Jungle Cruise jokes Available upon request (for the time being). 4) List of Hidden Mickeys The list from CompuServe is available upon request. 5) Misc trivia There are trivia quizzes available on the FLORIDA forum on CompuServe. If there is enough interest, I can try to make them available to the Internet.